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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Okay. Interview editing. I think

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): we we were editing the parent interview.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): and before George Floyd

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): or the network to address Brocker in Houston.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): And so over time. Then the network is actually really bought in and create. What does our research look like?

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): care system driven?

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Keep up. We've added the but

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): discrimination experiences. and how teachers socialize children to ethnic

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): their culture and be proud of their culture and

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): have

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): made. So we've made some mistakes along the way. Probably we added a not age, appropriate option to a set of questions last year, and answer that which was that I thought I was never sure if that was what they really thought, or just easy way to get at question. But

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): and then we have been fortunate enough to get this funding from Buffett to do the access pilot study access is an observational measure that was

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): is vineyard was was validated, created, and validated with video observation. So videotapes of classroom sent to a

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): main coding center in Pennsylvania. I think it is.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): And and we didn't think that would ever fly

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): the irb issues, educate care, getting around, having consents for all the children in the class

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): to be able to videotape and send to somewhere, and that somewhere would likely be us, and so we didn't think that was a good idea either. So with the author's permission, which took a while to get, and it wasn't the authors as much as the publishers, but we got permission to do that. So the first training is next Tuesday, Tuesday, Wednesday.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So the first

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): small group group of people from one of the other. More of the edge care sites.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): and then

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): went independently. Was I put that measure into grants? So I think they're gonna

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): they're gonna become part of our

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): as well. So we'll have some information about an observational tool that we might use. I was just explaining where we've been on our journey to add ex more equity assessments into our

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): assessment battery. And so what we thought we would do first we thought about just having a cares meeting

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): here like a little subgroup sub group of me. But then we thought, Why don't we just ask everybody what they think. because we've been at this for 2 and a half, 3 years.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): And let's see.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): we'd like to know what's been good or not so good about that, more importantly, what should we be thinking about in the future?

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Where? What's what are we missing? What else could we do?

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): What topics do we would we want to investigate.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): what are your what are your families that dealing with? What are your teachers dealing with? That would be important for us to know about and assess.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): How would we do that? So really, that's that's our agenda. It's really wide open for this meeting. And Caitlin, I think, is zooming it.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): It's being recorded. So we have it recorded.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): so I won't take notes

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): and we can. We can't speak freely.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): There is a webinar next Tuesday that's intended for the network.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): maybe, Chris, 2 weeks before Christmas is not a great time to have it. But, we're going to share data on the

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the results from the spring staff surveys.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So those are out in data memo form. But for people who don't really want to read or want to ask questions. We'll do a but small version of those and so

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): we've notified you all. And you've notified your programs. And I think, Cynthia, I'm gonna be going to send out another reminder. And if it comes out, Cynthia, maybe there'll be more people. But that's next Tuesday.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So alright is that that meeting was sent out. How that announcement that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I know I know. We sent it to you all to the led list serve, and I'm not sure where it went beyond that, we're never actually sure where it goes beyond. That's why we ask you to send it with your anybody in your program who might be interested. We don't send to the Ed list.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): that's your that's part of your Rpp. Miss.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): and I'll ask the co-chairs, Tiffany, any. Oh, my! If you want to add any other introductory remarks.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Get people get people to give us their opinions and advice. Nope, I came late for them.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I wish you could get everything into

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Donna. The Leps were supposed to be meeting with their sites and responding, filling out a form, and those were going to

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Amanda, I believe, or she was collecting them, and it was

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Kalen Donahue (she/her):  like the discussion and what their plans were going to be based on some of the information that they received, and they talked about, how did you share it with your site? And then, you know, do you have a plan, etc.? II wonder if there would be some information in there that would help give direction to.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): But I haven't heard Amanda report on that. Was it just for their use? Well, she has reported on it at Eretz, and I think it was up to like

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): oh, so on the research agenda. It's about the research agenda around race and equity, and also wasn't so much a discussion of. I have to be honest, I didn't go. I haven't gone here.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): so if yes, now I now I understand what you're asking, but I don't think there would be. I'll ask her, but I don't think there's a lot in there, because I think we've heard. We've heard the best that she's got out of that, which is that it's everybody is in different phases, and it really is talking more about actionable. I actionable things

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): personal. Yeah, responsive. Okay? And I will say that one thing I have

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): speaking of how sites use the data in the times that we've presented the data to either one of the work groups early on, after the first set of data came or 2

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): when I've asked. We had program folks respond. At the end of the last webinar we gave. It was interesting to me how

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): people got to talking about how they use how, what they talked about the data. But they didn't talk about the data itself. They didn't talk about the specific results that had come from the discrimination data or the socialization data, for example, the fact that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): aye.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): teachers that teachers and mentor teachers have these really widely differing views of when to start talking about things with their children.

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They weren't. They weren't so much talking about that. But they were talking about

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): other other issues at their school, about communication about these roles. Things were. It was was good talk, it was it? It sounded like it was. It sounded like collecting and sharing these data. We're leading to good conversations that we're hopefully moving places.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): But it wasn't actually

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): yeah. And that's a good outcome. But

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): what we do with that, what do we do with that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): people who are?

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): We get data, but we don't know how to use it. It's that aspect.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I'm not people having a conversation.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So that's if that's process question like that, like, we like to talk about our outcomes.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): What is this? What is the data actually sharing? But

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): it's telling us also something that is needed within that work. You mean overall

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): how to process that.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): how to processize it for those those data, just for, like conceptual

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): from out with the data. Actually, it sounds

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just how to have those conversations

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): at the site to help me understand that. So like, is there more people? Don't wanna, you don't want to make huge grande statements based on

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): basically of the big, you know, basically sort of like, you want to be careful, especially something of that nature. And so is there something else from your perspective that could help people actually

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): talk about the data? I mean, I've obviously provided, like example, what you could do. But is there more that more data to be able to tell the full story? Are you trying to get a sense of like

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I understand the hesitation about some of our race period, because it's just coming from many, many people. So it's not like it's unusual. Is there other specific

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): other things needed to be able to tell that full story because you can have the data. But it's like, what am I supposed to actually say about it. Something more of a sensible. Does that mean? It is more needed? I don't know what less I don't know.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): In my perspective we talk about. We talk about race all them all the time like that's not something that work, but what I just

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): learning retirement.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): sometimes ask for conversations in a school where my entire

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): teaching staff leadership, children, families.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): they're all black African American folks. So, being in that position, having those conversations, it took me well

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): to be okay with being uncomfortable in those. And I think that's a that's a leap as other piece that we actually have to be okay with.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): And I'm not sure that's

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): like, if I didn't have one of my mentors, I don't think I would have made that.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): We talked a lot, too, about how, depending on the background and ethnic and racial identifications of the the practitioners and leaders involved, that there are that for our staff, who are mostly Latino and Hispanic, like our most of our children.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): that there are cultural factors embedded in that hesitance, and also in a feeling that they're often not included in conversations about race, and don't know where to where to step into that conversation. So the thing that I hear

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): communicated in a lot of different ways is like we feel it's really important to talk about this, and we don't necessarily know

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): what our stake is or how to articulate it. And they say that in various meaningful ways we have one black lead teacher, and she has taken a leadership role which is really commendable. But it's also really.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): it's a lot of pressure put on her, and often to

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communicate and and sort of culturally translate those ideas to her colleagues.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): And there. And that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): is so. It's almost like when we start having those conversations. A lot of the conversations have to start with. How do we even start talking about this. So I think that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): that's probably true of a lot of sites

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or latino, those who are

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): it's there's there's very few affil Latinos in our community. They're mostly Mexican American. It's mostly, I would say, people who would check white on a census form, but do not present as white in most.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): but they're not even really phenotypically. Why, most most of them probably have substantial native American ancestry, but because of the way. Yeah, maybe because of the history of Latin America. They check, wait on the census form, and that's complain about it. And actually, this last year of staff data I was when I was looking at it. You know our results seem pretty great, and a lot of

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): teachers were agreeing with the need to know these for children, and they were, you know, marking how they are including, you know, their full traditions and and books, and all of that. And

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): when it was time to decide you. You know our site is part of the United Way, and the United Way has this big equity, inclusion, diversity, initiative. So Paula wanted to wanted us to do like a web page to present to united way kind of like highlight the highlights of of education, general. And I suggest that I was like, why do we include these questions? As I think the answer like what teachers reported, I think really support kind of like this mission of the United Way, and she says she didn't want to do it.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): She said that she doesn't feel like that data reflected the reality of teachers, and that she was very surprised by the results, because whenever they've had conversations about raise, they haven't been positive.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Yeah, but teachers, because of of, you know this

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): in green issues in Latin America. But the data will positive the data were positive. Yeah. So she was very. She was very adamant about. I don't think that data is accurate. I don't think that really reflects with the teachers feel. So I like, okay, so what we do about it, and no one kind of like an answer to it. So we picked something else. But

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I yeah, III start. I wanted to talk to you, Don, about bringing it up. I don't know if others have had that that experience of the director feeling like that data was not really active representation we had. We actually, we did have the exact same conversation we were in. We. We were invited to be part of my professional development.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): You know where they, when they brought in a consultant, and they were talking about the Id issues. And then, so I was sitting in a small group, you know. They divided sense up into divided up into groups, and I was sitting in a little group

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): where a teacher said, You know, this is completely under reported I don't think teachers really feel this way, but they're just not comfortable putting it in a survey. So they're under. You think that the impression is they're under reporting the experiences of discrimination. And they're under reporting the amount of the ethnic racial socialization activities that they do

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): that part. We were not in in this particular group. We were not talking about that part, but that that particular teacher was saying that just under reporting to the experiences of discrimination, yeah, and the other people in the group seem to agree with her. Yeah, II think it was not already

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): perhaps the potential friend. Yeah. But I think for us it was more that they were over reporting what they're doing with the children. They're not really doing a lot of supporting, you know, culture and and reporting that they are.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Also, it's slightly different. Yeah, yeah, with us, it was more like, they're they're thinking, like they're painting more positive picture than it is. There's more discrimination going, you know, happening. But there's more experiences of that. But they're just not, you know, reporting it.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So it's 2 big differences there in the sections of that survey. Yeah. So that's one is.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): see if people feel under reporting is happening. Well, I've always thought I thought, the only thing about the socialization has got to be under reporting, because when you report only 3 or 4 times a year, that's

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): that's more than the average. And I thought it was. That's probably accurate. I actually thought it was accurate. I was like, because you don't, based on what I see. You can't. If you don't even know enough

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): to be doing this. I think it's some instances some of them are under reporting. I think that because we don't even talk a lot about it, and the evidence that we have so far. So there's not a lot that's happened, particularly for certain groups. Okay? So I would thought, no, I thought that they didn't know they would do in it, and I think a lot of questions weren't, didn't have enough

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): detail to give them a sense of you. You just would naturally just don't call it this one. Reading books is hard to misinterpret activity.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Do you have observational data that would issue in one direction or another

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): anecdotal? They know what I've seen teachers interacting with children. But nothing.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Do you think you're Eddie's right? I don't know, because again, it's based on my observational, you know, anecdotal. And I'm there.

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not as often as Ed in the director.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): It's just.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): it's just so interesting. Yeah, I was worried. It's like a reaction like

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it's not a defensive reaction. It's like she's like, there's a pumpkin. Not sure with that.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): That's

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): okay.

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wondering if there were other things he thought

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): could be useful to sort of again. We can't. It's not gonna be completely perfect. But I guess I'm I guess I'm wondering, maybe, will she be in and what the data that will collect. This is almost like part of the conversation trying to figure out. But there are things that we're not

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): capturing, checking, you know. So again give, give more of a accurate representation. Again, I feel like if a school leader says that who's always thinking about the positive it tells you something to.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So she said, they have had some, you know, diversity, inclusion, training with teachers, and I had not been received positively by teachers, so I think it was a reaction to that.

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because right? Other things, because in one of our the Ies studies rather than asking, we're doing like implicit convergent. We're doing our mobile, computerized

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): person of sort of implicit bias. And that kind of stuff. So obviously.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): yeah, so I guess just needed other things. We're able to collect your survey or other things that. But we know some of these things were limited some extent. To be honest, it's a personal information. We don't have like structural system, all that kind of stuff. So I'm just security.

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I mean, I guess I'm kind of thinking of.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): If there was training that wasn't received. Well, I would if they have evaluation data on that training. I want to see it. See? Like, is it? Was it? Was it.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): or was it? You know

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): the sense of issue which I think. yeah, I think it's the action.

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When I'm given. I got Friday yesterday. Yeah, yeah.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I think our 3 sites are dealing with similar related issues that are all like, we're seeing different sides of it. But it is, and part of it is that their access to materials that are culturally

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): useful even is is very different than

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): than sites with other populations.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I had a

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): not exactly same reaction, but I had a I had

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I was. I was concerned that that we have a very white site in a very white state, and I was into basically, parents feel like, do not want to talk about this step without talking about it, and that was not all the results that we got. There was a lot of openness talking about race. I mean it was it was I was. I was really kind of amazed, and I had to like verify. They were right, and when I shared that with with our

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): leadership team, their reaction is, I think it might be a by sample. But I think that you know, you basically gonna have disproportionate response by by the parents who have self selected into the

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): But you know the the parent ambassador. Of course I couldn't answer that question, so I don't know if that was why or not. But it was it was it was they were like, Are you sure the news is as good as it looks.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): And do they look through the discrimination question? And the socialization question was, Yeah.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I guess I'm curious. If there are other things people are seeing that's being collected sort of around issues of racial ethnic.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her):  I mean, I think it's I think it's opportunity time for us just to think. And are there new

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): things you've seen? I mean, I know there's a lot. But I just because people have seen certain things they thought about. You know, I think it's a great time to kind of explore other additional things, just so that when cares needs to add, we can sort of bring those up. So I'm just curious. If there's other things you all have seen around any of the areas that cares

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): covers

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): or could cover. Yeah, cook cover. Really, at the end of the cook cover. Yeah.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): with the caveat that it can't make any of the surveys or interviews longer

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): responses there that they felt like in some ways. They that information could have been, you know, clarified. If something something had a question they might

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): put more information in there if they weren't quite sure how to answer it, and they felt like more open-ended opportunities would have been helpful. We understand the issue with

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): analyzing this data, but that's that was one request. But, Gabby, I think that was about the

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): right.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I was thinking that one of the areas where we've seen

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): the reports on experiences of discrimination. I think, what we're looking at the data earlier.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): where the I know that in a small, where our our white teachers are reporting experiences that I don't want to know, like, what's an example of something that you experience. So not just them, but just one area where we could have a story or something qualitative that gives voice to the the data.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): so maybe that that might be supposed to consider. I don't know. I mean it, it adds in question, but I mean it gives us an opportunity to

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): that. Deeper was an example or or something that you I saw you already share. Yes, right now we asked why they think they experience it and make it to choose race education, etc. Right?

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): age. Yeah. But maybe what is an example of something you've experienced

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): and didn't.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So that would be really valuable, because we had a similar situation from hearing from other sites that there's disagreement on the

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): how true, the data are, and the site director, the staff.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): We have county office of education. All had differing opinions about data and how true they were. So we ended up doing

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): listening sessions with our staff to to say, Hey, what? What were you thinking when you're answering this? And we heard very truthfully. What was going on was very valuable, and

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): it it led to some changes in stopping. So it really had a an important impact.  But there's a lot of question about, you know. How. What are people thinking when they're answering these questions? And I agree with some of it. It's it's it can be very

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Kalen Donahue (she/her):  just, I guess, lacks concreteness. So maybe examples or something to make it

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): work there for us to know what

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): people are thinking when they're answering the questions, I would think providing an example is just a dead giveaway for who you are, and if they're if they're

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): worried about answering a question with but the high, high answer they certainly wouldn't give you of an example. Yeah.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): have you? Yeah. Have you had in the years past. Have you had these kinds of reactions to any other

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): of the staff? Survey questions like the impressions of leadership, the impressions of their supervision, or or is this is this kind of response come up just when we, now that these questions have been added

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): hers? It was years ago. So that's when we brought it up. But so not when we we didn't have these questions. Yet it was the issue around.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): If we're getting prompts, then not everybody has submitted these. Then that means, you know, who has. That means you have these data, and you can look at them.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Doesn't mean that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): right. But that was that was talked about, that we instituted some other safeguards around that talked about the flow of data, how it comes through here, however, they're putting it into a container. Blah! Blah! Blah! We don't look at those aggregated don't know

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): but that that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): kind of question. It's a little bit back there. It done?

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Yeah. Mistrusting, mistressing the confidentiality promise. Yeah.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): And then the other thing that also came up right. And they were saying, unless we have 100% response rate. Then how do we know who are the people who are choosing to right kinda thing right? Like, maybe people who are, you know, had really bad experiences, or choosing not to answer the survey, or vice versa, whatever it is. So unless we get 100, we don't have the full story. We don't know right?

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): We listened really carefully to us, always talking about the issue of non-responsive

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): non responsiveness is between 30 and 40% teacher. So it's been getting worse. It used to be we used to get 80% back. It's been dropping.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Didn't seem to drop more once these questions were added.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): yeah. so I don't think it's these questions that are awful.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): It's just. They may not be as you are saying, they may not be answered as accurately as we wish. So what do we do about that? What I mean

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): with your suggestions and our discussions? I mean, that's what that's what our job. That's what Karen's job is to try to figure out how to get to deeper issues, important issues to people.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So how do we? Yeah, how do we? But we attribute less error to when they report their major, their education, Major. Nobody looks at that and says, Well, I just don't believe that. Sure they had more child development. It's it's these new questions that we're getting a response to.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So what do we? Yeah, where does that leave us? What do we do?

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Well, you can report the non response rate by question.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): That kind of.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): And either that verifies it, it's an issue, or it verifies it's not an issue.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Could you see it? Yeah.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I mean, I will say, I mean, I will say, obviously so work that I do. I think obviously, there's a lot of layers to issues of like discrimination bias racism. And so we're captured like

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): one circle of it. Like to be honest, a lot of us would be like, well, we could drag this part.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): But there's a structural pieces, the different levels of it. And so even they get through. Are there. Cause, say, some of you know this

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): to your point is different. Folks with different thoughts about. I don't know if this is true. Right. Are there first other ways to get data or information. So even just, you know, from observation data or from epigraphic data. So I think this different tribulation. But also are there other levels that you know again, not promising to other levels

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): of data like a lot of us use a lot of our census level data to capture some of the structural things right? There's so so we could start thinking through. Are there other ways to

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): to provide information that can give us maybe a bit of richer picture. About the structural parts. You know, even hearing a couple of you all talk that there's a there's a racial ethnic mismatch sometimes between us led and the the program staff, the educators nothing to make a difference, but they may be something to that as well. Right in terms of some of those things again. We have never really looked at a little structural like, who's the leader

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): community? Right? So there's all these other things that I think we actually have never really paid attention to that may actually have even more of an important influence. And so I do think that we there's an opportunity to not just look at the teachers and classroom and say, Okay, you're the only thing we know. There's a whole other structure, even within the educational

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): world of itself. Right? So I just, I just think about some of those structural pieces and just the interpersonal side of it. So

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): just wonder if other people had thoughts about other levels of other things we could be bringing in

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): cause. I think the survey, the survey right. This particular. Some of the items that we're talking about. A lot of them have been used and help.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): They help studies from international national. So they so they are quite robust and predictive. So whether or not there's concerns about it, we know that they have a strong predictive ability to them. Across many different identities, right, whether your race or economics, etc. So we do know it, have at least a strong, robust evidence from the health and some other related sectors.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): But just be curious that there's other things that could be

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): collecting not from just the teachers person, but like leadership. I feel like that's an area. So they have never really touched that much on.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Peter said.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): If I did.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): who your repeater is, it's how you start to hear that as an inference.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So I think we need a couple more data from

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): no, that's

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): leadership, intern.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): And this came up earlier this morning

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): that has that being an issue related to how much or how little of the professional development activities we're being implemented.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Leadership came up.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Potential. Wish we wish we had. And we've always wish we had more leaders which we

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): like self report.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): That's another level of time evasion. Yeah. But yeah.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): that self report aspect is interesting because I don't think a lot of people

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): necessarily are speaking truth to to what they're doing or how they're feeling. And and if you go to the circle around that leader and ask.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): how

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): how was this person meeting? Yes.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): but it's interesting what you said. So you know, I'm a huge fan of reflective practices in general, but I just really feel there's a tremendous amount of value there. and I have on occasion heard executive directors say.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Oh, I really don't believe in that. Thanks.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So I can think of, at least for that 2 different directors. So

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): they don't believe in what reflective supervision the power reflected Super. I just I just cringe and walk away

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): saving the jobs. I'm painful.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Okay. So I gotta defend a little bit. Because when I came into the network way back, when and Judy Burtaki trained all of our staff on reflective supervision. I had been running childcare centers for years and years, and I was like, this is garbage. Why am I like? I don't care how they feel. I need them to do their job right. And so it's taken me

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a long time at sending to to flip that switch and get us to where we are. So

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I would imagine that a lot of leaders come into our organizations in our schools with that childcare or public school mentality. Where you are just meeting, checking some boxes and criteria. And it isn't a reflective environment. So it takes time to get them to where they need to be

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): to the table. But the the early on, when the leaders who have been in their positions for

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): 8 to 10 years. The level of training on reflective supervision over the years has greatly trip changed. So what they are getting now versus the training that we had when we entered. Is it's night day. Yeah.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): it was 8 months. Oh, yeah, Judy. Judy came to Oklahoma City 8 months in a row, and we met with her quarterly on sites, and she would give you

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): on site mentoring. It was just one. And now it's like, you know, an hour, maybe 30 min in a week long onboarding. I even wonder if everyone since the training but no, that's a huge call, for sure.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): and what you will hear from the sites. So I got the chance to move, joining the educate Omaha site. But this was consistent also. It went a big on Lincoln is that the staff are spending all the time. The classrooms right now. So reflective supervision is just. There's no time to do it.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): and that includes site directors and classrooms, not just the metro teachers.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So maybe

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): this book could be put out. There is

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): given the constraints and the just huge

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): challenges for the field.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): how we describe reflective supervision doesn't have to be in. Oh, I'm just like this in a room with the video showing that you know, and having and have it be an hour long session or half hour session, reflective supervision

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): happens within the classroom. It can happen in many different forms. It's not just like a meeting. And so maybe

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): what is happening more, and I don't know this everywhere. But that reflective supervision is more engaged. It's within the classroom now, because those are the constraints on the system. That's where they are, and that's where they can give that feedback.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So we need to make sure

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): our measure can capture that kind of implementation, too. There should be nothing wrong with that. It's like the supervision, I would hope would not be defined as having to meet separately for an hour and using video or whatever, and having a dialogue like that, it can have many different forms, right? So

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): maybe we should try capturing that cause. Maybe we're not so. As a former director, I think many directors would be

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): defensive, and you can weigh into in this follow in terms of doing more surveys, etc. But I think of all the people in education care site. The director has less accountability. Daily one. They could do what they want. And yeah, the board holds them accountable. But the board has different.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): They're gonna be looking at different issues than what your program said.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): And I have always personally wish that there was more

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): done with leadership.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Just because I think that if you don't, that's where it starts. If you don't have strong leadership, then it's it's gonna affect everyone else. So II again, II would guess the resistance would be high.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): But I do think there's a lot of information there that could help maybe explain some of the other things that's going on in terms of results that come up at sites. So for what it's worth.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Do you think there'd be much resistance

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): followed? I think it depends on the school. Yeah, I mean it. It kind of it would, it would depend on.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Thank you

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): would depend on the people and the buy-in of of where they're at.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): so I don't. I don't know an answer to that. I can. I mean.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Well, if the person wasn't buying in, they would respond. well, and I it's not. It's not just a matter of resistance. It's a matter of time.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I know, trying to line up the leader interviews for the

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Cares Committee that we

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): yeah

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): it was just it was just heck, get nothing because they're up, because what they how busy they are. So once they were talking, once they were on the phone, it was. It was great.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): good, good conversations, and it wasn't a survey, and that was, and that was, that was better. Survey. Stuff is hard, I think. You know. If you have a school director who's helping cover lunches because you're short staffed, you know they're covering lunches. So then that means, whoever whatever your organizational line is. But the next person up is probably handling a few more things for that school director because they're not in their office all the time. And then and in our organization, like, I'm doing way more than I used to do.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): you know. Pre pandemic, pre pandemic the again, because everybody is lifting heavier because of that workforce shortage and like we said earlier yesterday, even you know, we have such

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): green. I'm using the word green green teachers. That haven't been in the in the arena very long.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I hear

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I carry all of them buttons. and as a form of school director I get all of those butts as well.  my question is. is it important data to have?

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): And if it's important data notes, you call it

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): so in Omaha we have been doing reflective practice, reflective supervision. And Jamala, who is? She's the CEO.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): She's in second command, basically about educating Inc. And she's like we've been doing this. And I want to know what our return on investment is

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): honest because our staff are saying, Hey, we're holding this time sacred. But I'm not seeing it trickle down. All we're hearing is anecdotal information. So we actually have a plan this year. That whenever they meet on a reflective supervision time they have to fill out something, there's a question they have to answer, and they have to be accountable for. If I'm a mentor teacher who did I provide this supervision to this week.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I just have a form every every month. I knew exactly who who had done, how many sessions of reflective supervision with who? Because I would see things like. And what's their name? Diane, Diane? I noticed that you met with these 2 classrooms

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): 4 times. and these 0. Can we talk about this? And and we used to say. If you don't monitor it.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): chances are it's gonna start well, and because they're paying for it right? So they're paying for already. Come into these reflective sessions. And so they're saying, you're paying an outside person to come and do one on one sessions with our mentor teachers and stuff. So we're valuing it. But is it going down into the team? It isn't making a difference. And so

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): this year we are collecting a bunch of data around that. So we'll see what happens. So with the data for Demo, for example, is there content about what you actually talk about so like within that you're able to say, Oh, we talk! We talked about issues of

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): that would be some of the content. Now, part of reflection practices. I don't go and

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): talk about our conversation. That's what there has to be some anonymity in there in aggregate. But yes, we are

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): collecting that data this year because we do have to know what are that? Issues that are being brought is that inform future? Pv. What does that look like? Because it can't be what's kind of coming into a counseling session

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): and not necessarily addressing so a little bit of a shift on the focus this year for that. So I know we're always gonna have challenges with

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): recession to the research and how we use it and and what the perception is for teachers about who's collecting the data and how it's being used. But I'm wondering that if this might be a good time for us to

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): think about how it's publicized when I say publicize teachers into end users that are at this at our sites, because

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): we've got the, you know, opening news about the research agenda being put out being shared. And I'm not really sure what all the messaging is like this, far like at the at each of the sites. But this might be a time when we can explain that there's a difference between your lp, who's, you know, partner with you and how to use this data to click in the data and

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): staff that they partner with and their access to this data. I mean, we're very careful about

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): you know, which shared, you know, especially from the from the survey perspective which shared with on site as opposed to. You know.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): you know what what directors you know might share on our behalf. We don't let them send messages to the teachers about the survey, that all they come from us. So they know that there's a disconnect there. So I'm just wondering if this is this, if this is an opportunity for us to to, you know, kind of put some more messaging out there, because

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): if there's always questions about the validity of the our responses, I mean, will we ever really.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): you know, be able to get to some of the the fine? You know details that we'd like to in terms of this research. thinking it's timely. It's an opportunity.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): you know.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): program staff advertising like the parent survey or staff survey is coming up. And maybe we say, just remember, while we're involved and encouraging you to do this survey, we don't get the stuff. We don't get the data. This all goes to our partners and they protect you. And then we

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): you know.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): II guess II mean, I also feel like I want us to be careful to not just say, Oh, because the data doesn't. This is concerned with about a number of people who respond like response rate, or what I saw that I feel like is also another discount. The data, right? So it's almost like a level of information is that who doesn't sort of

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): connect with what you think. That is trash. And I think that if we're not doing our other data to me, I think we want to also be clear about look, survey data is survey data, right? Our Federal government spend bill dollars collective. And so we know that there's errors with that right? And we're obviously, you know that there's we know all those sort of things. And so, I think, is, we also need to sort of.

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I think. Also figure out, how do we make sure that all of us have language about that survey? Data has always had errors? Yeah. So to sort of pigeonhole one particular aspect of a data.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): because either doesn't jive with what you think or not. I think that we're going to kind of make sure that we're like we understand. But we also should have. Let's talk about this part of the data, but everything else we're good with. And I think that we have to. I think, to a level push back to that, because I think we won't get the richest of the data. And then, especially when our agenda, we have that. So I think that we just have to. I think through, how do we respond to some of those

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): really important concerns? But but be careful that we don't really need digital data because of the errors and always add all of us, every data to be blown about it. So that's just one thing for me. Yeah.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): yeah, it's also there. The only way to get their voice in. I mean, it's one. So that's what we also emphasize. It's a way to have your, you know this is your opportunity to express what you want, because that this can change thing. I won't do it. Yes, yes, it can. But it. There's a guarantee you don't speak up.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): it won't. That won't change. You don't get your voice out there. It's not the opportunity. But if you have a voice out there, there's an opportunity for that. So yeah, so this meeting is your opportunity to add your voice to the cares.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): What more do you want. What would you like to know more about?

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): As it relates to our research agenda. our families and staff

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): question.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): is that correct? So

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): at the network level like how professional our briefs look.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Right? So the briefs at the you know network meeting are really well done. They're produced. Well. it seems to me that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): With these data in particular, the survey data, but in particular the the race equity and and diversity data.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): maybe having a uniform document that could be sent out. not unlike those reports that we got. We did share that with our with our group when we talked about those, but it seems to me that.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): like an info or graphic

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): with summarizing these data and talking about as a network, have these opportunities and challenges, I just think that would could also be another way to to the Cares Committee that can come from this level.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I think, could be really helpful.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): But agree.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Communication is the thing like that whole. Can you find the thing I mean? II just design course. And one of the students is the journalist. That's, you know, journalism, school, and and I think we don't give enough credits to how much you know. She was talking about some of these issues like how it showed up.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): It's also how it could be received. Right? They may not read the content, but how it comes up at first to be that. So I think your point about how, and II think a lot now by design that I ever did like before, went to Nebraska. By the way,

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I think a lot about designing what the imagery is. And so I do think that your point about how you design it. It could be something that we should really think about. Yeah.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): which took the cost to it. Doable. Because we have a lot of many students are actually who do a lot of great workout.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Those communications. No, they do

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): present.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I'm thinking about the workforce issue, and how the constant turn of staff

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): is influencing the school culture. And like how we're building that trust and getting them to buy in. If it's a whole new people every year. It's interesting with the turnover. Are we losing ground on diversity among staff

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): because you take whoever you just come through. I don't know. I worry about that a little bit.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Yeah. And then the same issue with leadership, like, you know, one of the things we talked about, the

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): discrimination data and fiscal culture issue in general, which is how parents and how staff are perceiving leadership. But leadership has turned over sample turned it, you know, like, it's just really hard to PIN anything down right now, because there's so much term across the board

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even to be able to build school culture to have this consistent leadership.

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Pieces

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): 2016, probably. I don't know. I mean, if it was to keep the programs data about where it's focused for culture and efforts. So that might be something we could take another look at.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): That's good.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I'm taking notes here

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): in person.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So then again, thank you.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): because it's like a culture assessment. And we use that one centric interference study

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): something like that so that one.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I think the idea of correlating some of these things would turn over to representing one of the few like weird outlier sites where our turnover is not a problem.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Yeah, where where our turnover is quite, it's slower than average is significantly slower than average for for an early childhood site that I'm curious to see how turnover rates would correlate with questions like that. So like, there's a paper in there. If there's questions are added

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): anything about the families that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): she.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): We talked a little bit with our family data, thinking, wondering about like sense of belonging and attendance rates, because we were seeing between our 4 schools that attendance rates were differing by majority minority status.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): so like at our black majority school.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): the Hispanic children had lower attendance rates, but at our Hispanic majority school. The black children had lower attendance rates. So thinking about what's behind that, as a sense of belonging our family is feeling engaged with the program if they're not a part of the mentor population.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Perfect.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Okay for minority index. So

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): just reminder every summer. Get this attendance rate data and

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): the only source

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): there. It is

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): just because it's interesting. Our attendance is the highest ever been.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): and it's because everybody is so grateful to be in a spot in a classroom that's open. So they're not messing up like they're not taking nobody's taking for granted anymore. So I think we were like 96% last month. It was, yeah.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Yeah. Well, then, they have like, emphasize the rule about attendance.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): But we always have. Yeah.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): yeah, they were saying they were pulling enroll by keeping the numbers open, even though somebody wasn't attending.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): And oh, that's great! 96 degrees.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Maybe somebody could correct me if I'm wrong. In the parent interview, and then we have the spring. a sort of survey.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): They have open, ended questions for parents to say, Oh, what are your future desires for your child, or and your future desire. And and what do you tell us? Some describe your child.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I wonder if

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): if we could add, or maybe it's in there, and I haven't seen it. Their thoughts of educate as a school, or as a place for them to bring their child to. How do they?

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Because

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): it would just be interesting to see what they say?

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): An open-ended question.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): yeah. And you raise a good point that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): We've looked at other data, other family data by race ethnicity. But we don't look at any of those qualitative answers by race segment city. And in fact, some of them aren't even coded.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Yeah.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): if there's interest we could.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Using the royal, we, including any of you on.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): do we know what the percentages of parents who are who answer the open ended. So I feel like our site. There's not that many, I mean, we do get some, but it's not a lot, not a lot, but

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): a lot of the answers are very enlightening.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): May only be 2 or 3 or 5, but you know some that come through. It's like

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): you wish, yeah.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): And maybe if we did something with them and could feed them back right

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): in a way that made it seem like.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): well, you know, if you answer these questions, we will. We will summarize and make a change. Do something related might might increase.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): but it also could be a language issue for your particular sample.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So I know the answer. I'm in Spanish and we translate.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): do you? You probably try? No, you don't see them. Yeah, Linda.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I don't personally

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): to highlight

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): glass, just kicks clothes along that line

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): of information that they have shared about education, care, or about needs, or about where children are

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): and use that highlight in like an infographic information that's

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): up there, so that they also see that their voice is being is perceptive. So

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): how often do you have that like you put in the lobby of the school, like for parents family to see that? Does it go home on a.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): It's been both ways, both ways. Yeah. And so it's been both ways, but especially like, before, you know, some event or parent cafe. Now they're starting this up again. Yeah.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): not at time. But if you have further ideas, say them, and if not, we'll free up some.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So, at the at the risk of being being the person in care to always brings this up, and a lot of the meeting person know where this is going. So one of the things that I drive everybody crazy about is the idea that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): the data that we collect and analyze via cares we want to be able to communicate not only within the agricare community, but beyond it. So does anybody have thoughts about parts of

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what we're currently talking about.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Either, in terms of things that you think might be of interest beyond educator or places that you think would be

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): receptive to amplifying or publishing that information

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): be like external externally.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): it is

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): the one you sent out 3 days ago before the

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): should be disseminated.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Some of those issues questions I see.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I think we want to be cautious

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): and and and always thinking also, how will this benefit our schools and our and staff, and our children and families too? And and if we don't see that connection. Some of these things beyond the walls isn't the priority for that kind of thing. And right now, in the culture of this

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): really ill world

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): could be could make it harder. I can think of Kansas, and I can think of many other states that have

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Carolina that have legislators that sometimes we go to. We want them to support our work. and when something, you know is kind of in their face, that we that we've disseminated

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): It just doesn't, doesn't serve as well. So I know that we are cautious. We have to be. We have many families who are undocumented

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): have to be really cautious about how those you know, what we are disseminating, what

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): you know quotes what what voice and and how we're getting that information out, as also a way to make sure

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): our work is protected, and our staff and children

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): that's I don't like.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I think that's aligned with, you know. Partly, you know, it's it's an issue. Is that is that what other people feel, too.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): sets political statement ethics to me when you start on

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): hedging what you were saying. It reads, the exact house means that we should actually.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): yeah, louder.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): We can yell loud a lot of things. And I think it's really important. But

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): there's also we have to also be sensitive to this other issue. Yes, I just think that it's it's one of those things.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I agree. I don't want to bury our sand because this covers the

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): II love the conversation that we're having here about what's going on, because when I go into that world they're they have demanded.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I don't want that base. So

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): for me, it's like we need to yell about what we are doing. I agree, because in a lot of ways they wanna do it. But they don't. So yeah, I just think we need to get louder.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): So if I could say, I think II definitely agree. I mean, there's a point of view we definitely have to protect people who especially go through a likely

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): impacted differently right? So even at the University, that we think about protection of just people, but also protection of them sharing their own trauma and all sorts of things. I think that to me that's one end at, for sure. I would just say, you know, that's like sort of connected to what's I was asking about sort of external communication. I would say that you know educator is known

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): for many reasons, right again, locally. But the one thing my works for educating my national. And so it's important that more

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): comes out because you needed to actually enter both the the scholar world, but also the policy world. And so I feel like, for example, for the National Academies. They're like, okay, tell me all the new stuff that's coming out. If it's not written somewhere.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): it doesn't exist. And I guess II sort of. I'm always leaning on the side of. We can protect people. You don't have to use people's names. All that kind of stuff. We know how to do that. Well, I think that that we have to understand that to keep educate, to be as valuable as it is, it has to actually leave the walls. I mean, this is my, in my humble opinion. Cause I can't. If I'm on national papers that come out.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): There's nothing I can say I could say. Education is great. We don't care with with the evidence, right? So II wanted to pull about. How do we balance both the protection, but also the internal work, and that has to happen, but also that that we need things to come out because we have to use this for policy making kind of issues, for sort of research issues make billing consensus issues. And and education has been really great resources. We're trying to push head, start

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): to do certain things right? So I think that that we have to sort of do both. And I my, my final shameful plug is that I think that that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): that part of legislation is to create fee. That's really the goal of it. And so I think the question of the network is is is great, and that you have some level of coverage, right? That you can say, share information as much as you can. But you have cover of a hopefully, a larger network that is actually willing to to to sort of state is claim that this is one issue, that many of our families live

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): with across this country because we're in different parts of the country. So II guess I would say, how do we balance sort of exactly what you said, which is, I think, really important, that we don't put our families out staff, our workforce in danger because they're double, you know, vulnerable. But how do we not also just fall into a trap of fear? Because that is literally the goal of it? All right, I think it's always the balance that we have definitely do.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): And that's my, my, we have to have the conversation actually figure that out right. We can't open happens without adequate to your point that I really appreciate it if we actually don't speak to the issue. That but some of us you know, campus reports, comes after me right? So some of us are literally in danger because of the work right? And so some of our parents are in danger of staff. So. So I think it's how you also protect

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): the jobs. Protect the slots. Right? So there's no point from the state, because you depend on that. That means kids will not have slots. So I think it's, how do we? we have. We have to understand the the politics that we're in. We're not. It's not like you could just like, Oh, there's no politics here. I think we just have to be really blunt and have those conversations about, where do we research as the smooth, the political side happens, I just think we don't have enough of that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): level of compensation. But I appreciate pretty great. And the

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): in the sand. I just brought that up because it goes both ways. So I just wanna make sure that we need to make sure that it's

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): clear.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): I think, that the fears of confidentiality, and that I think that in the way that data has been collected and presented and shared so far, one of the first things on everybody's mind is protecting the families and the staff that are responding to these measures in a way where it's not reflecting on people's personal information in a way that's going to endanger them, either individually

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or as a site or as a community. There's a lot of effort put into that. I think that if

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): one of the things that people are encountering in communicating data is concerned about that, then that's something to work on in terms of your relationship with your site and community in terms of your Rpp. In terms of your communication to families, to make sure th, they are trusting you and the network to be communicating things in a way that keeps them safe.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): because those concerns are very valid, and they're day-to-day, urgent concerns for a lot of our families and a lot of our staff.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): And that's something that I think is true at all of our sites, regardless of the politics surrounding them, too, like that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): are the reality of what we're doing is being extremely protective. And we want to make sure that our sites and our families and our staff are very aware, the extent to which we are working hard to protect them. At the same time, you know

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): respecting very much what you're saying, Dale. My response to that is always the people who are going to oppose it are going to find a reason to oppose it, regardless of our compliance with what we think they want to hear. And I think you always said more eloquently that I probably could like the reasons to have that mindset of like you just got to say what you

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): got, and appeal to the people who otherwise would not be aware of it, and because of their awareness move to supporting educators supporting what education care is trying to do.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Okay? One last comment, go ahead. It's

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): go ahead. Okay.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Dale. Dan, wasn't. You weren't talking about technically of individual, of individual respondents. I think we're content. That's protected. You're talking about protecting the network. Because if the network is in danger, then, that affects services to the, to those standards. We just have to be aware of those things, to what we disseminate

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): in danger. I think it's those State funded grants, a section of a curricula for preschool that's on teaching 3 and 5 year old, 3 to 5 year olds to Eib, getting making making them aware that may lose its funding.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Hi Grant may lose its funding

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): to provide professional development or to teachers around the State, because somebody has pointed out that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): specific pieces of curriculum and just have to be aware of those things on the table. It is that is ugly, it's awful. but also something. And yeah, we can scream a whole lot about it, and then we go ahead and lose that fund if we don't want to do that. But I mean. So if those are just something sorry, that's our example. And I didn't write curriculum, somebody else would have to achieve it.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): It's

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): we have so many places to disseminate and to work on issues. So we a little tightrope there. Yeah. I think you're right that it's, I think. Let's do everything we can to protect them.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): A staff.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Well, thank you very much. I feel free to contact cares. And we have just found out that

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): there's a cares pro a member of the Cares Committee program representative who hasn't responded to my emails in 2 months. And it's because she went to care. So it's like, we need a new program first. So if you have, if you have someone on in your program. But you think is interested in data, particularly this kind of data. Please let me know, because we need a new program.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Okay, 15 min break and then back.

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Kalen Donahue (she/her): Well, then, to your next. Whatever.